Talk:Crimson Tide (film)

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Contents 1 A note on the realism of this film 2 Ramsey's actions 3 Race allusions 4 Awards --> Trivia 5 launch order 6 grammar 7 Awards inaccuracies 8 Fair use rationale for Image:Crimson Tide.jpg 9 Coincidental Tom Clancy Reference? 10 condition 1SQ 11 Typo 12 Fair use rationale for Image:Denzel crimson.jpg 13 Broken links 14 Quentin Tarantino

A note on the realism of this film

As a former Trident strategic weaponeer - I should point out that US policy has been simple and straight to the point for decades: If any doubt exists about your authority to release your weapons - you do not launch. Period.

Hunter pointed that fact out to Ramsey, but Ramsey is a bit Racist and won't listen to Hunter.

Bullshit. There was a valid launch order confirmed by EAM. The fragmented recall order was not validate. YOU LAUNCH.TCO (talk) 08:23, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I should remind you that this is forum.  Xihr  08:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Ramsey's actions

To kinda piggy back on what the previous user stated, the film makes both characters out to be equally right in their actions. Not sure about that. I think Hunter's actions were by the book. Ramsey threatening to blow a man's head off, strike a fellow officer, and not follow US policy is unacceptable. The guy was a wacko plain and simple. He was out of order and Hunter's actions were in order. Panda

To put it simply, Ramsey was acting on an old outdated invalid message based on the intelligence provided from a previous time. You cannot in those situations ignore information no matter how quickly it comes, information is paramount. Ramsey was making assumptions of what the situation was, which was both beyond his command and beyond his knowledge. He cannot choose which messages he wants to obey and which ones he doesn't, cut off or not the message was still sent and must be authenticated like all the others. Both officers should have worked toghether more and had those discussions in private. Whether that would have worked as Ramsey was an old dog and neither respected Hunter's position or his authority in the chain of command i doubt it would have worked. Given the situation Hunter did what he had to do and showed examplary leadership and guts in a situation that most men would have shyed away from. I can't think of too much else Hunter could do dealing with Ramsey other than to arrest him for being in breach of command and procedure. I can't imagine Washington sending a message that said the same thing twice, but even if the message said to fire the missiles or it had been a fake radio transmission Hunter was still right to check it and should have been given his own command as he was at the end of the movie.

Race allusions

User:Films addicted just made some modifications to the article that declare racial aspects between Hunter and Ramsey. I saw no such thing, and I've watched this movie a dozen times. A little too much non-neutral POV from the user? I think this warrants a copyedit notice placed on the article, or it should just be removed. --Sasoriza 08:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually there was an exchange in the film between Hunter and Ramsey that touched, albeit vaguely, on racial tension. It comes when they're waiting for the radio to be fixed (Ramsey gives Hunter "three minutes"). Ramsey is talking about the Lippizaner stallions, and how intelligent they are, and adds, pointedly, "they're all white." Hunter responds, "at birth, they're not white. They're black."

Again, it only lightly touches on racial tension, but it's definitely there. Crazed actor 20:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

It certainly is there. Also, the title is not Red Tide, but "Crimson Tide" referring to a very specific shade of red. I believe this is also related to race and the color of the stallions.

The submarine is called the USS Alabama, and Crimson Tide is related to the Alabama collegiate team. - user:USS Noob Hunter —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.222.210 (talk) 07:02, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Awards --> Trivia

It seems like the awards section should just be a bullet item under Trivia; the Awards section doesn't actually talk about any of the awards given to the film and the people involved with it but just talks about awards the actors received for other films. Theshibboleth 05:59, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

launch order

I may be wrong, but I read somewhere that it is impossible to rescind a nuclear launch order once it has been properly given, because in a situation such as the one in the film, only one sub/bomber/silo launching would negate the attacking country's initial advantage in a massive nuclear strike. Perhaps this doesn't apply to a limited strike, or I may be completely wrong. AlexiusHoratius 04:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry you are completely wrong, it would make no tacticall sense for there not to be a procedure that would ensure the death of millions. However, bombers, after passing a certain point are instructed to ignore all abort orders. This is due to that as the planes pass the point where they can not abort the enemy will be certain of their intent and may form a fake abort message.

grammar

"While the elder Ramsey voluntarily retires and the young Hunter is given a command, the movie aims to present the intractably uncertain nature of the launch scenario, in essence placing full blame on neither character

this appears to be 2 sentence fragments. also, intractably uncertain is a double negative.

Awards inaccuracies

This mentions movies that have had 3 actors or actresses that had already won or went on to win two Academy Awards for acting. However, it does not appear that The Good Shepherd, The Godfather, or The Godfather Part II meet this criteria. For instance, of the mentioned actors and actressed, Diane Keaton, Robert Duvall and Al Pacino have not won two Academy Awards for acting.

Fair use rationale for Image:Crimson Tide.jpg

Image:Crimson Tide.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 20:55, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Coincidental Tom Clancy Reference?

Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid, but the characters' names seem to be a reference to Tom Clancy's books-specifically Ramsey and Hunter. Marko Ramius, of Red October fame, is given the alias "Mark Ramsey" in the sequel, The Cardinal of the Kremlin. "Captain Hunter" is a minor character in Hunt-he is a senior officer on board the HMS Invincible. The submarine theme of the stories seem to affirm that connection-but then again, it could just as easily be coincidental. Any opinions? Sandy of the CSARs 03:07, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The linkage is tenuous at best. With all the charcters that Clancy uses to populate is universe, it is not surprising that two names pop up in other works. Now, had the Captain and his exec been named Ryan and Mancusco, that would be another thing entirely. For the purposes of the article, unless you can find a reference for this, it would be OR in any event. -Seaphoto^Talk 06:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like the typical ability of human brains to find patterns that aren't there. Even if this were intended, one would need reliable, third-party references to document and identify it in order for it to avoid being original research. Xihr 22:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

condition 1SQ

In the movie the various states in the launching process are ordered by the conn with "set condition 1SQ" and later "set condition 2SQ". Are these terms actually used anywhere in the Navy or Armed Forces or are they fictitious? Google didn't find any hits but the movie. --AchimP 13:36, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Short answer is that they are real. A longer explanation can be found hereSeaphoto^Talk 06:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Typo

I fixed a typo in the article. 68.46.238.121 12:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Denzel crimson.jpg

Image:Denzel crimson.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Broken links

In the Plot section, the link "period of instabilities" to Post Soviet Russia - Clashes of Powers is broken (It links to Post Soviet Russia, but not to the specific section Clashs of Powers). Mdob | Talk 21:23, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

So why not fix it? Xihr (talk) 23:43, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't have the time, sorry. The Post soviet russia article is too big and I cound't find that section in it. But even if I cannot fix it, just giving a notice here helps other people. Mdob | Talk 12:01, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Huh? You were talking about changing a link. It would have taken less time to go ahead and fix it than to have written that reply. Xihr (talk) 03:34, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Quentin Tarantino

I removed Quentin Tarantino from the screenwriters in the infobox. Although Tarantino has often been credited with writing some of the dialogue for Crimson Tide [1], he does not receive an on screen credit. IMDb uses the WGA screenwriting credit system and ideally Wikipedia should as well. There are many examples of uncredited rewrites, and it may be worth pointing out the Tarantino link in the article as long as it is not too anecdotal. --♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:43, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

What about Quentin Tarantino (uncredited) in the infobox. There are contractual issues behind official film credits that Wikipedia is not subject to. There are for example films where major parts or even directors go uncredited, but we (as an encyclopedia) should still report the actual actor/director etc. (See Alan Smithee) —MJBurrage^(T•C) 21:53, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

The main issue is sourcing. The "I read it somewhere" type of cite tends to get challenged, so although I have no objection to putting Quentin Tarantino (uncredited) in the infobox, the article should provide a citation. The one mentioned above is passable, but perhaps someone could find another one, eg [2]. There are also reports of uncredited rewrites by Robert Towne and Steven Zaillian on IMDb [3], but the purists often challenge IMDb as a WP:RS. --♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Completely agree with always needing a source in such a situation, and that IMDb (as incredibly useful as it is) not being a valid source by itself due to it's trivia etc. being user supplied without credited sources (just as Wikipedia itself, is not a citable source, although better because it has listed sources). —MJBurrage^(T•C) 18:07, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

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