Talk:Economy of Brazil

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I If you change the world classification of economies from Brazil being at the 9th to the 11th, then you should also change the classification in the table at the right side and you should consistently explain why do you consider better this alternative ranking to the GDP PPC used before. --Poldavo

Contents

Massive erases =

With all respect, Chico Venâncio, you said the information doesn't have refereces? All tables have references.

The tables contain information that is not easy to find in the internet, and it gives the reader a very good information about Brazil. Herbert Alves 06:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

All right, the tables don't hurt the article as bad as the rest. I still think they are not encyclopedic but lets leave them until we can find a better way to put some of the table data into the article. Since nothing was said about the other erases I am going to redo the them, we can talk about how to improve it from there ok? Chico 07:07, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


What's the purpose of this page? In your opinion. What should be coverd?

In my opinion, this page must not cover economic history of Brazil. It should provide numbers and forecasts about key economic statistics. Information about industrial output and location is too complex to be kept here.

The tables come in handy, a simple browse over the tables, shows that Brazil hasn't grown in a few years, income is concentrated, but inflation is under control. Unbiased, concentrated information.

I created a page for Industry and Agriculture. They should cover the situation, history, location and output of brazilian industry and agriculture.

Herbert Alves 19:54, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I think you are rigt, we should not cover economic history in this article, or give a deep covering about Industry and Agriculture, but we could keep small sections on both subjects giving links to the full articles. Also I think tables are not very encyclopedic, we may be able to present the same data in another form, until we are satisfied with another way we can keep the tables. I am just glad someone else is trying to improve this article with some work we can have a great article here. Chico 17:41, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Go ahead and create the sections for Agriculture and Industry, although I disagree with them. On my view, I would upgrade the article according to this page: http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Economia/0,,AA1391193-5599,00.html Add 2007 GDP growth prediction, 2007 inflation target and trade balance forecasts for 2007...Add numbers for 2006 inflation, GDP growth and so on...What do you think of this?

What do you mean by "encyclopedic"? Do you have any replacements for the tables? I agree that the tables don't look good, but besides the arguments above, the tables are the best way to present historical statistical data, they save space and they are in a sub-section. More important, they offer the foreign reader a brief background of vital brazilian economic statistic.

It could be argued that years covered in the tables and the topics of same don't follow a criteria, I agree, but we can solve that. Originally the tables presented information of the past 5 years (2001-05), I will bring the tables back to this format then, ok? Herbert Alves 18:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

What's up Chico Venâncio? I've been waiting for your answer for 3 weeks now. Should I go ahead and add the forecast of some key economic indicators for 2007? I will start getting ready, next week I will add those Herbert Alves 04:13, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Go ahead, I am not doing much editing these days, kind of a wikibreak, I'll come back to work on this article in about 2 months. I think 2007 estimates would be a fine addition. Chico 04:51, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Economy Of Brazil

This page must aim at current economical statistics of Brazil, recent Economic Events, short term economical prospects of Brazil.

I don't think economic history should be covered here, becsue there is a huge page covering this topic already.

Next year's inflation target, GDP growth estimate, primary surplus should be the topics of this page.

For example when mentioning Balance of Trade of Brazil, I don't think it should be mentioned that Brazil registred trade deficits after Plano Real was introduced, this already belongs to the economic history of Brazil.

Herbert Alves 01:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Transfered Agriculture and Industry to NEW topics

Agriculture is too important to be just a sub topic here, so is Industry.

Agriculture is huge, we need to talk about how we went from coffe to soy, the resurgence of sugarcane


Herbert Alves 06:31, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Added 5 new tables

I added tables of Inflation, GDP growth, capital formation, income distribution, and avearage exchange rate which is important in order to convert GDP or other informations.

Herbert Alves 20:10, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

National accounts

I wouldn't mind having some of the flow numbers, and especially the increase numbers, like GDP growth, for a few years back, one year really doedn't say a lot. Of course, you would like to have a chart of especially GDP growth rate.--Jerryseinfeld 20:40, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm someone was playing around changing words into godzilla and the like but as i have a mastercopy i fixed it relatively quickly. Replayee


This page needs updates. Angra II Nuclear Plant has been in operation for years and we only import 12% of our oil, not 33%.

Oil Self-Sufficiency

The data concerning oil imports/exports and consumption/production is obsolete. Normally, I wouldn't much mind, but seeing as the country has recently reached a consumption/production ratio where it actually produces more than it uses, I'd say corrections are in order.


Macro-economic trend

Two remarks: (1) the numbers in the table are not in constant currency terms (or at least the source doesn't seem to indicate that), which means that the number takes inflation into account (i.e. "nominal growth" as opposed to "real growth"); (2) it could be useful to also state the growth in international currency terms (USD, or perhaps euro), as most people don't know how much a realo is worth. Sijo Ripa 10:34, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I have changed the table from a new source. I prefer current prices plus the ruling forex conversion rate to the arbitrary constant prices as it reflects market reality better. But a new issue has come up. Dollar values of GDP are available from IMF but not the exchange rate of the Brazilian currencies in circulaton then. So I have presumed the exchange to be constant during 1942-94. The new table is based on this:
Year Brazilian Currency US Dollar Exchange
1942 1 old cruzeiro = 1,000 reis 2,750,000,000,000 old cruzeiros
1967 1 new cruzeiro = 1,000 old cruzeiros 2,750,000,000 new cruzeiros
1970 1 cruzeiro = 1 new cruzeiro 2,750,000,000 cruzeiros
1986 1 cruzado = 1,000 cruzeiros 2,750,000 cruzados
1989 1 new cruzado = 1,000 cruzados 2,750 new cruzados
1990 1 cruzeiro = 1 new cruzado 2,750 cruzeiros
1993 1 cruzeiro real = 1,000 cruzeiros 2.75 cruzeiro reals
1994 1 real = 2.75 cruzeiro reals 1 real

Also see [1] Anwar 14:05, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

OK forget the above presumption. I just found the actual forex conversion rate at [2] Anwar 14:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
One more thing. Inflation and consequent interest rate environment are reflected in the forex movements. Anwar 11:20, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Privatizations proceeds

Sources are needed to say: "By the end of 2003, Brazil's privatization program, which included the sale of steel and telecommunications firms, had generated proceeds of more than $90 billion." Chico 18:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC) I removed much of the Macro-economic trend section because it sounded like something out of a defense for Brazil's former president than something form an encyclopedia Chico 18:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Revision

This article needs a major revision, a few sections overlap, some even repeat each other. Most facts are not referenced, and much of the article is not NPOV. I am going to place a expert revision template. Chico 00:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Grammar Error

The following sentence is not grammatically correct and should be changed:

The Goldman-Sachs paper that proposed this group of countries would have rapid economic growth and by 2050 would eclipse the current major economies

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.202.120.159 (talk) 08:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

Actually

There are a lot of grammatical and spelling errors in this page. It is fairly annoying. I don't do much Wiki editing. I am not sure what the procedure is, but the page needs work. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.202.120.159 (talk) 08:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

GDP growth data updated

The previous numbers were from 2005; now the table shows the GDP growh in 2006, according to the new IBGE methodology.jgsodre

Debt as % of GDP

The stated is from 2005 from some newspaper or something, the CIA factbook says of 2006 it is like 50%--198.29.1.65 07:34, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Expand the Article

The article Economy of Brazil is bad and need of attention. Now, this Talk page will serve of “rough draft” to expand the article. Before making definitive editions in the main article, the changes will be made here. Below I made a list of sources to extract information. Felipe ( talk ) 17:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Banco Central do Brasil
Instituto Brasileiro de Geografia e Estatística
World Bank
Government
Other

COPY OF THE ARTICLE Economy of Mexico

A major review of this article is needed! urgent! since user Joao is copy-pasting chunks of text from the article Economy of Mexico, a very well developed article. That is not fair to the users that created that article and of course, copy-pasting from other article is wrong and highly unaccurate. Please, somebody correct that or I'll have to do it by myself. AlexCovarrubias ( Talk? ) 22:09, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, come on, you crazy? I used only the model of the Economy of Mexico article, but the texts are completely different. And this is the Free Encyclopedia, and all its content can used and be edited. Felipe ( talk ) 22:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any inconsistencies in the article, Joao made a great contribution and if he copied the model from the economy of Mexico article is not a problem since this is common practice in WP.Chico 23:31, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Since Felipe Invited me to participate in this project, until now, I have seen a remarkable improvement. I regret not having the chance to participate actively, as requested. I will try to help you guys out. There a few things here and there that need attention and need to be expanded, but overall you guys have done a great job. Congratulations!
One of the few things that I would change is to eliminate "magazine-type" qualitative sentences, and try to make it as encyclopedic and quantitative as possible. For example, comments such as "It was a long road to reach the position of 10th largest economy in the world.", while true in general terms, these are are more "novel-type" and not "encyclopedic-type" comments. China's situation only 50 years ago was far, far worse than Brazil and today they are the second largest economy in PPP. I prefer quantitative arguments and not qualitative arguments. A better alternative is: "Since 1808 the industrial sector has grown remarkably, at a pace of XX% a year, and Brazil is now consolidated as one of the most advanced industrial sectors in LA (with citation) and an important exporter in the area with over XXX million USD a year." This sentence sounds more encyclopedic.
I would also try to avoid qualitative comparisons between countries. For example: "the industrial sector is the most advanced in LA". This is subjective, and will invite edit wars. First you need to reference it. Then you need to define "advanced" (developed? high-tech? diversification? value of exports?), then you would need to compare it in quantitative terms. For example, from the World Bank you can get the percentage high-tech industrial exports. Brazil is not the first one, so you'd have to rule that out. Maybe diversification, what sort of industrial activities are performed in Brazil? R&D or Assembly? Can we get a percentage? Or perhaps you can say "the industrial sector in Brazil is the largest in LA in terms of GDP percentage" or "in overall value of exports" (if it is true, I haven't researched that myself, maybe it is not true). Numbers speak a lot more than qualitative claims, and nobody will be able to refute them. If anyone changes that claim, you would have a solid quantitative proof to revert. =) This in fact has helped us (in some areas, I know we might need to change some stuff in Economy of Mexico), but overall, vandalism has been greatly reduced there, because administrators will always revert back to a quantitative solid and referenced argument, but they will rarely revert a qualitative argument.
I hope this helps,
--the Dúnadan 14:37, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Also, beware that you are copying verbatim text form your sources. You cannot copy the text and cite it. That still constitutes a copyright violation. You must paraphrase it. Only if you put the text in quotations with a direct link, then you can copy the text without paraphrasing it, but you cannot put quotations over entire sections, even if they are cited. Please review WP:Cite.--the Dúnadan 16:34, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

NPOV

I read the article and wass a little disconcerted with the overoptimistic tone of it,one could even think that its a developed country they're talking,it's true that Brazil is the most robust economy of Latin America,but like India,Mexico,China,etc it still lacks the caracteristics that make a developed country so its more a major underdeveloped country.It would be good that the article would mention this factos:socioeconomic inequality,external debt,regional economical disparity and foreign capital dependence.Its ridiculous that the only thing the article says about this is one phrase ¨Ineqaulity is a historic problem for Brazil, but has improved in recent years¨.--Andres rojas22 19:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I don't think this article is NPOV. More like PPOV -> Propaganda Point of View --82.83.4.254 21:00, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Oil and Andres

Brazil has become self-sufficient in oil, it is even beginning to export it. Therefore I think the text regarding oil should be updated. As for Andres, read it carefully and you will see it mentions poverty and regional disparities within Brazil, such as that existent between Northern and Sourthern states. It is not an over optimistic article, it is a realistic one, which talks about the well-known difficulties Brazil had and still experiences plus the not so well-known side of the country. It is good because many still don't know how advanced Brazil is in some sectors.

GDP Per head 2007

The latest statistics show Brazilian per capita GDP to be 8,800 USD (http://www.indexmundi.com/pt/brasil/produto_interno_bruto_(pib)_per_capita.html). The article must be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.60.74.203 (talk) 20:08, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Population below poverty line

The article says only 4.1% are below poverty line.

Fundação Getúlio Vargas says they are 29%[3] and the CIA says they are 31%[4]. Opinoso (talk) 11:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

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